The Leadership Lesson Behind 5+15: How to Build Teams Who Think, Act, and Lead

I asked a question on LinkedIn the other day.

“What’s the biggest problem with your manager?”

The top answer surprised many people.
It didn’t surprise me.

Most respondents said they wanted more direction.

Not less. Not freedom. Not autonomy.
More direction.

At first glance, that sounds reasonable. Everyone wants clarity. Everyone wants expectations they can see and follow.

But here’s the tension.

When people rely on direction for every step, they stop thinking for themselves. They never develop the muscle that only grows through pushing through uncertainty. They don’t learn to make decisions without permission. They don’t build the resilience that only shows up after you fail, recover, and move forward with new insight.

That creates a workforce full of people who can play the game.
But never rise above it.

And that is why the principle I teach—5+15 is greater than 15+5—matters now more than ever.

Let me break it down.

When someone spends only five minutes on the problem and fifteen minutes asking for answers, they become dependent.

That’s 15+5.

But when someone spends fifteen minutes wrestling with the problem and only five minutes asking for support, they grow.

That’s 5+15.

One builds dependency.
The other builds resilience.

And the gap between those two is the gap that defines leadership today.

I learned this lesson long before LinkedIn surveys existed.

I learned it in the moments before Flight 1549 hit the Hudson River.
And in the moments after.

No one gave me direction on what to do when we landed in the water. No one handed me instructions on how to move through the cabin, who to help first, or how to make decisions that mattered in seconds.

All I had was what I had built.
My thinking.
My preparation.
My ability to act without waiting for someone to tell me what to do.

Resilience isn’t something you gain after the moment.
It’s something you carry into it.

That’s the problem with over-direction.
You limit the very thing people will need most when the moment comes.

So let’s go back to the survey for a minute.

If most people want more direction, the real message isn’t about managers failing.

It’s about how we are training people to operate.

We’ve created a culture where workers feel safer when they wait.
Where they feel better when answers are handed to them.
Where they want clarity, not because it helps them grow, but because it shields them from risk.

When that happens, people avoid taking ownership of their own development.
They avoid the hard thinking.
They avoid the moments that lead to growth.

And when those moments show up in real life—when something breaks, shifts, or falls apart—they struggle.

Because they never built the muscle.
They only learned the routine.

So what do we do?

We teach people to spend more time in the fifteen.

Fifteen minutes thinking on their own.
Fifteen minutes wrestling with the challenge.
Fifteen minutes forming a point of view before they come to you.

And only five minutes asking for guidance.

That simple shift changes everything.

It develops courage.
It develops clarity.
It develops conviction.

People start to see problems differently.
They start taking responsibility for outcomes.
They stop playing small because they realize they can solve more than they thought.

When I talk to teams, I often ask a simple question.

“Are you playing the game, or are you growing through the game?”

Playing the game means following directions.
Growing through the game means owning your development.

One keeps you comfortable.
The other prepares you for the unknown.

If you’re a manager, this is your moment to shift the pattern.

Here’s where you start:

• Create space for your team to think first.
• Ask, “What do you see?” before giving answers.
• Reward effort in the fifteen, not the shortcut in the five.
• Encourage decisions, even when people aren’t sure.
• Let them fail in safe ways so they learn early and often.

And if you’re someone who answered that LinkedIn survey saying you want more direction, here’s my challenge to you:

Ask yourself whether you want direction or certainty.

Because certainty doesn’t come from someone else’s clarity.
It comes from your own.

You gain it by stepping forward even when you don’t have every detail.
You gain it by trying, adjusting, and continuing.
You gain it by staying in the fifteen long enough to learn something about yourself.

That’s where resilience is built.

Not in the moments when everything is clear.
But in the moments when nothing is.

That’s what carried me through the Hudson, not only on January 15, 2009, but those swims across the Hudson River and Coronado Bay with our Special Ops heroes.
That’s what will carry you through your next challenge.
And that’s what will carry your team through the moments when your guidance isn’t available.

Leadership isn’t giving more direction.
Leadership is developing thinkers.

Thinkers become problem-solvers.
Problem-solvers become leaders.
Leaders become resilient.

And resilience is the difference between playing the game and changing it.

So the next time you face a hard moment, ask yourself a simple question:

“Am I choosing 5+15 or 15+5?”

Your answer will tell you which future you’re building.

And it will tell you whether you’re preparing yourself—and the people who count on you—for the moment that is coming.

This is the work I love.
And it’s the work I’ve been digging into with a small group of high-intent professionals who want to rise to their next level with more certainty, more direction, and more confidence.

I’m calling it the Sales Resiliency Mastermind.

It’s where we take the principles I’ve lived on the plane, in the river, in sales leadership, and throughout my career—and turn them into a repeatable path for people who want to lead with clarity and conviction.

Not a course.
Not a quick fix.
A real environment for growth.

I’m not opening it wide.
Just offering space for the right people who want to develop the mindset and skill set that today’s selling environment demands.

If you’re feeling the pull to grow in this way—or you have someone on your team who needs this—send me a message.

Because it always comes.